« Wrong Mr. Stone! | Main | Didn't I tell you? »
January 10, 2005
How they see the world
I was reading the introduction to a famous edition of the Royal Frankish Annals (RFA) today. The RFA is one of the best known sources for the history of the Carolingian Empire (Charlemagne et al.) and thus I need to read it for one of my classes.
Anyway, the introduction talks about various issues in the Annals, among which is the authors of the work and how they saw the world and how the work was used as a tool of official propaganda. Basically, the authors assume that their side (the Frankish king) is always right and his enemies are always on the side of evil and do things out of pure hatred.
These sentences in particular attracted my attention and made me think of some of our modern powers and how they look at the world. Seems like not much ahs changed in the past 1200 years, and despite all of our claims of modernity and enlightenment, we are not that different than our 8th and 9th century ancestors!
"The Annalists reveal no sympathy or understanding for the interests of these tribes. If the Franks wage war on them, it is for breach of faith, or, if the people have at no time been subject to the Franks, because of their arrogance and hatred."
"...the later annalists similarly charge them with 'fickleness,' 'treacherous spirit peculiar to the nation, 'senseless obstinacy,' and speak of the 'arrogance of this faithless tribe,' whose opposition, however, quickly collapses under the fierce blows of Frankish counts."
[Carolingian Chronicles, Royal Frankish Annals, Nithard’s Histories, tr. Bernard Walter Scholz with Barbara Rogers, Ann Arbor: University of Michigan, 1972]
Just replace the "annalists" with "journalists/TV Pundits" and "Frankish counts" with the military arm of the super-power of your choice!
Posted by Khodadad at January 10, 2005 11:43 PM
Comments
Well, at least "we" are not like "them" because we are educated, unlike the barbarian illiterates, although we don't really have some things that would allow us to openly express our opinion on some things, but well, we are good at beating up on people who don't really threaten us... we are particularly good at attacking kings of 1200 years ago, and 2500 years ago, and 26 years ago... And for today, well, we have "superpowers" to beat up on... why not, it's not like anyone will come and arrest weblogers in Berekely...
Well, as to the Carolingians, Charles the great, Karl der Grosse, interests me because well, it is the start of the first Reich and anti-superpowerians might find it a nice sign from Allah, that the dynesty ended on ... 911 (AD)... Well the official cause was apparently, as far as I know, Khodadad should correct me if I am right, because of lack of heirs and issues!!!
As far as the question of good and evil goes, it is absolutely right that all dualities are simply inversions of one another and binaries which in final analysis are each other's absolute value... that is the axis of evil equals the great satan, and both are wrong...
BUT without the dualites, nothing runs. No computer goes on the internet and publishes my nonsense without the usage of ones and zeros, although we all know that the world is not made up of ones and zeros and in fact, in reality, there is no such thing as zero...
The question then would become, what are the machines made up of ones and zeros producing. Is it in the great satan that we can knock the government, or is it in the axis of evil... And are they really the same, as one can read based on some expressions and issues?
Well, Charles the Great's empire worked no matter how insufficiently, to make another kingdom after the decline and fall of the roman empire and that, partly, due to the usage of dualities... Yes, there is no truth to good and evil, but there is no world, has never been, and will never be (apart from the final victory of Ahriman over Ahura Mazda) without it...
Yahu
Posted by: Amir at January 11, 2005 05:43 PM
Amir, grow up! BTW, no, Carolingians were not the first Reich, that is German nationalism, and the "Carolingians" did not end in 911, that is only one of their branches, namely the German one which is replaced by the Franconian Konrad.
I am not beating-up on anyone or anything, and I don't see it as my responsibility to answer your sarcastic remarks. If you do not like my views and what I believe, you are more than welcome not to visit my weblog. It is a fact that people, generally Eurocentric thought system, still thinks about the rest of the world like this. Now the fact that the biggest representative of this thought system now is the US government is not my problem.
Posted by: Khodadad at January 11, 2005 09:33 PM
Sounds like the Frankish King had his own ideas about Axes of Evil. :) I agree, human beings do not change with the passage of time. It is always much easier to beat the drums of war if the warlord can paint the enemy as evil, unworthy of mercy, killers of women and babies, etc. Another thing that hasn't changed is the lust for wealth and power that drives the unending beating of the drums.
Posted by: David at January 11, 2005 11:05 PM
Let me be clear that the German branch of the Carolingians interest me, because of the importance of German Nationalism in what I am doing, German... Surely the fact that at least one branch of the Carolingians would be considered by Germans to be their origins, and specifically under the title the first Reich, should also interest others who are not in the German department. But appreciate the further info on others, surely one learns something everyday. I however don't see how this comes following a "grow up" imperative directive and as a "BTW". I think actually the most central factor to your post was a discussion of the Carolingians (in this case with someone who comes from the German side, Allah-permitting,)and furthermore what you had read out of them, that is the problem of the dualities of good and evil. It was just interesting for me to see that you start a post about the problem of dualities with an (us vs.) them. Sorry to have gotten under your skin, but apart from repeating what we see in history, the new attempts to break out of this, whether successful or not, have been to deconstruct the dualities... If ever and again a group is blamed on doing this while another is not, this in itself is the construction of the same dualities...
As far as "growing up" goes, well, if maturity is standing up for one believes, no matter what "real" political pressures there are and no matter what benefits there are for tolerating fascism and not addressing and talking around the issues that go on in my country and this as part of a grand system of pandering to the betters and the non-saghirs and the Fuehrers and the rest of them... well, sometimes he who throws Growing-Up stones, might be advised to be careful in such glass houses and under the Allah and Allah-Akbar flags.
I might be irritating, but I don't hate you or "not like your views", and I don't mean to bother you as I seem inadvertently to be doing, but as far as you not tolerating my sarcasm, well, I will persist until you formally and in more uncertain terms, throw me out, just like your Islamic Republic has. I cannot do otherwise. And it is not that those who still tolerate the fascism in Iran are somehow "grown ups," they have simply found a way to accept the fact their government treats them as juviniles and are fine with it. This does not make them grown ups
Now about Eurocentrism being represented by America, and somehow not by the goodiegoodie Europeans like Chirac and Schroeder, well... If you are ready to accept Iran as a third world country, as your president Khatami repeats again and again, justifying the state of affairs, then it is no wonder that you'd have this view of Eurocentrism, - taking Europe out of it without any problems...
So, Khodadad jaan, go on and deal with me like the government you support has done... Let's see about that "dialogue amongst civilizations," baradar.
Posted by: Amir at January 12, 2005 02:35 PM
Amir, this is going to be the last answer I am giving to you, just for you to be sure that I am not throwing you out. What you are doing is harrassment, not giving your ideas. How about you making a weblog and writing all of your ideas there, not in my comments box? No one is stopping you, are they?
I am not taking Europe out of Eurocentrism, I am not sure how you got that? Europeans like Chirac and Shroeder are as much guilty of Eurocentrism as Americans, so I am amazed with the words you put in my mouth!
Then, I mean grow-up with trying to be provocastive! What is with the Allah-o-Akbar and other things? Where did you deduce that I am a supporter of Islamic Republic? Just because of the fact that I still go to Iran? So, everyone who goes to Iran is a traitor and supporter of the IR? I am not the supporter of any regime, but if you want to force me to make my weblog a vocal anti-Islamic Republic forume, I have to inform you that I am not going to do that! That is not my purpose, that is not the point of this weblog. You are seeing the world in black and white: if I am not talking against the IR, then I am supporting it. How interesting!
Anyway, in order to save you from any future misunderstandings, I like to declare here that this is my PERSONAL WEBLOG and I am allowed to ignore anyone I chose to. If you use my comments box as a way of expressing your views, I will take actions against it. On the other hand, if you decide to start a weblog and write your grand essays there, I will gladly put a large link to it. I am not against free speech, it is just that this is my lawn, and I am allowed to say who can stand on the soap box in it and shout out.
Posted by: Khodadad at January 12, 2005 11:26 PM